Chinese Fechtbuchen?

[JeanryChandler]

Ran across these doing some research this evening. Do those guards look familiar to y'all?

http://www.sevenstarstrading.com/article/2hand/ming2.html

JR

[Matt Shields]

Quite Interesting.

I find the one handed stance on the bottom left quite odd. And the stance on the top right completely bewilders me. With the blade pointed at that angle, it seems like cutting (the only option,) would require some bizarre lower back twisting to gain a full arc.

Over all, It seems much closer to Renaissance Two-Hander use than the Longsword. With that said, it almost seems as if the sword weighed too much for the user...
The placement of the feet seems a little off, but that could be due to the quality of the illustration (unlikely.)

But for the third and fourth page;
I don't understand what kind of sword is being used is being used, since these illustrations are from the Sixteenth Century, perhaps an imported Katana. I was under the impression the Chinese two handed sabers were much more wide and had an inverted grip (apparently not used for draw-cuts.) But I find it intriguing how much more similar the use of the straight sword is to our own martial arts than the curved blade.

And why with that blade with such a long grip, predominantly use one handed stances?

[Casper Bradak]

I've noticed japanese fencers normally use stances identical to the european (specifially body position, not guards).
Here's some instruction for the stance from a japanese fencing manual of the Shinkage school....
"Put your weight on the forward knee and stretch out the rear knee."
And here's one from Der Alten Fechter of 1488...
"The front leg is bent, the other one going towards the back is stretched."

[Jay Vail]

Casper, I have dabbled (and I heavy stress the dabble) in Japanese fencing a bit, and I too have noticed many similarities between Japanese and Euro approaches to the two handed sword. It does not surprise me that some of these Chinese images also appear similar to Euro teaching, although I would be cautious about interpreting some of these postures as wards. They may picture a man in the midst of a movement, as some of the Meyer material evidently does.

I personally find the similarities fascinating.

[James_Knowles]

Does anybody know of the relative quality of the time period's drawings?

We're all at least acquainted with the goofiness of Mediaeval European artwork. Much of my manuals are still puzzles to me.

[Matt Shields]

Well, the clothing looks pretty well done, and in a couple stances the feet seem to be at realistic angles, though the man looks a bit chunky in some and not the others, and the sword isn't much more than a black line. My amateur opinion would lead to say these are just under the level of Flos Duelatorum.

[noah gross]

Jeanry,great pics, thanks.
The Journal of asian martial arts have hd a couple of interesting articles that touch on this.
volume 8 issue # 2 - 1999
had an article by Matthew Galas titled:
Kindred spirits
The art of the sword in Germany and Japan.

another good one was:
by Willey Pieter
European & Japanese Medieval Wariors
volume 2 issue # 1 1993

there were also two interesting article about the:
Mu Yei Do Bo Tong Jil from 1790
depecting sword stances and exercises.

(i wanted to add a scan of it but dont know how)

Noah Gross